Interview with 6PR on the proposal to ban surcharging  

Gary Adshead (Host): And what’s happening is the ACCC, Australian Competition and Consumer Commission are going to be given some funding to tackle this as an issue and then potentially ban debit card charges from January 1, 2026 that seems a long way away anyway. Let’s talk about it now with Anna Bligh, the CEO of the Australian Banking Association G’day Anna. 

Anna Bligh (Guest): G’day. How are you? 

Gary Adshead: I’m all right. Can you do it? Can you ban the surcharges? 

Anna Bligh: Well, government certainly can. It’s actually the government that well, not the government, but through the Reserve Bank of Australia, that makes the rules. And there is already a rule that says businesses can surcharge. There are many parts in the world where it has been banned, so it’s certainly possible. I very much welcome this review, because the rules are 20 years old. If you think about it, 20 years ago, most of us, the only card we used was a credit card. The world has changed. It’s unrecognisable since the rules were made, and it’s well overdue that we had a really good look at this. 

Gary Adshead: So, if I pay $5.08 for a $5 coffee, for example, who’s making that eight cents? 

Anna Bligh: Well, that eight cents goes directly to the merchant, the small business, or whoever you’ve paid it to, but they do have legitimate business costs, their rent, their electricity, their telephone, and the cost of processing that payment, they just are able to add that and surcharge it in a way that they’re not allowed to do with their other costs. I’m sure you’re aware just going down the street, some businesses decide to do it, some don’t. I think the real question here is, when a customer goes to the checkout, should they know the price before they have to pay? I think it’s a pretty simple answer, but it’s not a simple process to resolve this, because there is a lot of pressure on small businesses out there in the economy at the moment. There’s a lot of pressure on consumers, and I welcome the Reserve Bank’s discussion paper. It’ll help everybody get this right. 

Gary Adshead: Because you do have to, as a small business, you know, you’ve got the equipment there that enables people to have the convenience of tapping and going etc. So you’ve got to pay for that. You’ve got to pay for the security around it as well, in some way, shape or form. 

Anna Bligh: That’s right, there is actually also a cost to using cash. It mightn’t be visible, but if you think about it, at the end of the day, someone’s got to count the money, record it, take it down to the bank, that’s staff wages. You can’t surcharge for that cost, businesses just either wear it or add it into the price of the goods or the service. You know, the world has changed. It’s not going to change back. There are many people who continue to be happy to use cash, but just go and stand in any coffee shop, and you’ll see people overwhelmingly using a tap and go often on a pretty low cost item, you know, a cup of coffee, as you said, a cup of tea. I do think the time is well and truly now to have this conversation, because it’s a very strange thing to me that you can go into one shop and know exactly what you’re going to pay for whatever it is you’re buying, you go into another and it’s a bit of a lottery frankly. 

Gary Adshead: Yeah, someone said on the text line that they can’t understand why they get charged a 2 per cent fee each time they use an EFTPOS card to have their nails done. 

Anna Bligh: And I should say, there are rules around this. You’re not legally allowed to surcharge whatever you like. You can’t surcharge if you are not allowing people to use cash in your business. And you can only surcharge for the cost that you are that’s imposed on you for the machine and the processing of the payment. We know that there are businesses that are surcharging well and truly outside those rules. So, I think the money going to the ACCC to go and have a good look at where this is happening is also a welcome announcement from the government. There’s a lot of players in the payment system, very complicated at the back of house, it’s not just banks. It’s also the operators of the physical or the, you know, the virtual infrastructure. There’s the card schemes, MasterCard and Visa. We need all of those players to be able to invest in the network, to keep it safe, to keep it up to date, to innovate and to modernise. So, while it’s all invisible in the background, it does cost money and having the point of sale technology there, is something that’s just standard business practice now in the 21st century, Gary, I don’t know how old you are, well, you remember when you went to use a bank card and you had that machine that slid across. Compare that now to something where you just go tap and you had to sign your name, all of those things. As I said, the convenience of it is something that customers really value. I think the question really that the Reserve Bank and the government is asking is, 20 years since those rules were put in place, are they still the right rules for the economy of the 21st century? And if they’re not, because our behaviour has changed so much, and the opportunities and the convenience, then let’s make rules for the 21st century. Instead of trying to leave customers not knowing till they get to the checkout how much they’re going to pay for something, it just doesn’t seem right. 

Gary Adshead: I think all our listeners will agree. Anna Bligh, thank you very much for your time. I know you’ve got to get going. Appreciate it. Thank you. Anna Bligh, CEO of the Australian Banking Association. 

Ends 

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