Anna Bligh interview on ABC Brisbane about financial abuse 

Steve Austin: Do consider this scenario, a relative or a friend caring for an older person decides to dip into that person’s accounts to pay for their own holidays or home renovations. And the banking institution can see the money going out of one account into another account. And they want to flag it with the police and adult guardian. But to do so they need the permission of the account holder. And the only person who can give them that permission is the person they suspect to and that is not unusual. A federal inquiry is underway to look at how financial institutions can better identify and prevent instances of abuse on their platforms. And it’s due to report back in October this year, Anna Bligh is the Chief Executive Officer of the Australian Banking Association. And what steps are the banks already taking to try and stop what’s called elder financial abuse? 

Anna Bligh: Well, good morning, Steve. And thank you for your interest in this topic, I think it’s a really important one for us to think about. And I’m pleased to see the parliament, turning their mind to it. Australian banks are deeply conscious of financial elder abuse, often their staff are at the frontline of this problem, as you said, they can see in the accounts, something very untoward might be happening. And so first of all, staff, staff are trained, banks also invest in algorithms that will help them see unusual behavior and accounts. They also work with senior groups and groups that represent older Australians, to give them better information about things like powers of attorney, and what to look for, if things are going wrong.  

But ultimately, our banks are not police. And they don’t have the power or authority to go into someone’s house and check that they’re okay. So the privacy legislation in Australia, which is also a very important thing, I think, to all Australians means that you can’t use someone’s personal information without their explicit consent, unless you have a genuine belief that they might be at serious risk of that their life might be at risk, or they’re at risk of some serious harm. This does not include financial risk or harm. And if we can imagine someone who is unable to do their own banking, it’s generally because something like Alzheimer’s or Dementia has set in. And so they’re often not able to give consent. If someone is financially abusing them, they often also restrict their movements in other ways. So, these people, or these customers are not easy to contact, because they’re living with an adult son or daughter, and they don’t let them have the phone. So, it’s those sorts of very practical things that I think we could do better.  

Steve Austin: Banks are also working with domestic violence victims to try and assist or protect them as well. Can you explain briefly what’s happening? 

Anna Bligh: Yeah, so we see financial abuse tragically, in different sorts of relationships. When we’re talking about older Australians, more often than not, the ones who are most risk are those who, because of age or having cognitive issues, and someone else has authority to act on their account. Not always, but that’s often the most common circumstance, not always, in domestic violence relationships, we’re not necessarily talking about people who have a cognitive problem. But they may well be in a relationship that’s characterised by very serious coercive control. And one of the most effective ways to control someone’s life is to restrict their access to money. And, we often, certainly domestic violence workers will tell us that that’s what they see. But we also see, one of the tricky things in domestic violence circumstances is some of the patterns that a bank might see in in their accounts, I think sort of can be perfectly reasonable in a normal healthy relationship. So, it’s, for example, a couple who has a joint account. And they both put money into that account, but only one person or one person uses the account 90 per cent of the time. And, that’s because they’re working part time and they’re doing most of the shopping, most of the things with the kids at school, you know, they’re putting petrol in the car. These are normal circumstances, but it’s exactly the same kind of pattern where somebody is putting money into a joint account, their abusive partner has taken a keycard off them, they are unable to access their own money. And the abusive partner is taking all that money from them. So, you know, these are very tricky things to work through. Because, you know, it’s not always obvious from the pattern of behavior, what exactly is happening and banks are also mindful that people don’t necessarily want them, the banks, don’t want your bank ringing up asking you about your relationship, you’ve got to be a bit careful about the circumstances in which you would do that. 

Steve Austin: So, the Bankers Association have made a submission where you’d like to see some sort of body to investigate reports of financial abuse, just briefly, but I’m heading up to the news. How would it work, do you think Anna Bligh? 

Anna Bligh: Well, so I think actually, Queensland is a very good example for the rest of the country, you have a power, you have a body in Queensland, which banks can report to, and that body actually has powers to enter a premises or to get a warrant to enter a premises and check on somebody. And interestingly, talking to the people who work in that organisation, they tell us that sometimes financial abuse is the canary in the coal mine for much more serious things. So, a bank might report to them we’re seeing really unusual behavior on this account and think there’s a risk, they send people out. And they’ve found things like, older people literally locked in rooms or not being fed properly, you know, often awful circumstances. So, financial abuse is a really important thing for us to get on top of because it’s often the tip of the iceberg.  

Steve Austin: Have to leave it there. And I’m so sorry. I’ve got to go to the news. Thanks. Thanks for joining me this morning. Anna Bligh is the Chief Executive Officer of the Australian Banking Association. 

 Ends

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